Bible Teacher or a Philosopher?

Did you know Adam could fly?
Did you know Adam was God?

Both these questions are obvious grossly incorrect statements. In the video clip you will here Mark Kielar address pastors who add, remove, and makeup their own ideas.



Side Note: I found if I add names of people and pastors to blog post that they will visit the site so I'm going to do an experiment.

Rob Bell, Doug Pagitt, Bill Hybels, Rich Warren, Robert Schuller, Brad Pitt, High School Musical.

Preaching & Preachers

"Arrogant Legalism" or the offense of the Gospel?

It is with great humility, thoughtful prayer, and diligent study that I've compiled this post as a response to a comment left on my blog. I did not want to reply to this comment with a harsh attitude. So I spent much time thinking of this reply. The comment is from a post I did called “Don't have people ask Jesus into their heart”

here is the comment from that post
“I believe this to be an incredibly arrogant display of legalism. To imply that on becoming a Christian our sin nature is completely done away with is ridiculous. Yes we live in Christ...exactly. We are not some person set on Jesus Auto-pilot. I'd like to see this article set to more biblical text. How would Romans 7:14-25 compare and contrast with this article? The first converts in Acts? How does this article interact with the book of Hebrews.“

Let me addressed a couple things that are pointed out in this comment. You can make the insertion that this is a display of legalism. But it's a display of what the Bible teaches. Further down in this article I will give ample scripture to back up my thoughts. If you walked out the front door of your house right now, and were hit by a car. You would instantly pass to heaven or hell. At that point, it doesn't matter if its legalism. What matters is, "is what the bible teaches true". You’re dead! and if you’re dead the question is did I repent of my sin (turn from sin) and believe in Christ. When you realize that we are dealing with eternity, we are dealing with people's souls that will be either tormented for eternity in hell or glorify God the Father and Jesus in heaven I don't consider it anything but the gospel. I ask everyone who reads this article to put aside things someone has told you, the thoughts that you've had about Christianity, conclusions you have, and listen to the Scripture

Matthew 7:13-23
13 "Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
A Tree and Its Fruit
15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles?
17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit.
18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits. I Never Knew You
21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.

In Matthew 7 you will clearly see that your profession in Jesus Christ means absolutely nothing. The person in verse 21 is someone who emphatically declares Jesus as Lord of their life and what does Christ's say to them. Depart from me you workers of lawlessness. Or iniquity. what is lawlessness? I want to point out that it says workers of lawlessness. When you see the word work or practice it is speaking of something, you continually do if I practice my baseball swing. That means I repeat the act of what I'm trying to accomplish. If I’m practicing on my swing, I keep swinging the bat. So if I practice lawlessness, than I would be someone who consistently breaks God's law. What is God's law? We could look at the standard that God has set for us, in the 10 Commandments. Now I am not saying that our works save us, but faith without works is dead (James 2:17).


The next thing I want to address in the comment is the sentence that says, “To imply that on becoming a Christian our sin nature is completely done away with is ridiculous.” Are we not new creatures in Christ; are we not dead to sin?

Hebrews 10:26-31
26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.
28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.
29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him who said, "Vengeance is mine; I will repay." And again, "The Lord will judge his people."
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Does your conscience convict you? Or does your conscience speak clearly? In Paul's epistles he talks about the conscience. About having a clear conscience. About having nothing convicting him in his conscience. When he was being accused of this by people and he said my conscience is clear. Is your conscience clear? If you always lie, always steel, or always lust for women (or men), or when you blaspheme Gods name by flippantly using His Holy name. You are breaking Gods law.

In reference to Romans 7:14-25, Do we not all sin as Christians? Yes. The New Testament talks about the fact that as believers we still sin. If we say we do not sin. We make God a liar. There is a difference between stumbling and diving into sin. Never giving up your sin, longing for sin and enjoying the sin. Paul is simply talking about the fact that he doesn't want to sin, but it still happens the things you don't want to do, You are doing and you get frustrated and upset and disappointed that you've let God down. But your life is not marked by that sin. You are not defined by that sin; Paul's life was clearly not marked out by sin.



Below I've added several more Bible verses that reiterate the stance the bible takes on the issue of sin and the reason understanding sin is so important. It goes right back to Matthew 7, there are people in this world that believe they themselves are saved, they have prayed a prayer but have never turned their life over to Christ. They've never repented and believed and on the judgment day when Christ will say to them. Depart from me. I never knew you. You workers of lawlessness. That's why I come across boldly, because we cannot modify the Gospel. We can't make it more palatable. We can't take the offense out of it. We are all sinners. We all need a Savior. We all need a substitution and we have that in Jesus Christ. If you say I'm a Christian, But you bear bad fruit than on that day I hope you don't find your self as one of the many who lived on the broad road, who thought they were on the narrow road passing through the narrow gate. But hear Christ say depart from me!





Judge not let you be judged

1 John 2: 3-4
3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,

1 John 2: 29
29 If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of him.

1 John 3:4-10
4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.
5 You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.
6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.
8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.
10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

Romans 1:28-32
28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.
29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips,
30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
32 Though they know God’s decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

Romans 2:2-6
2 We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things.
3 Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?
4 Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?
5 But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed.
6 He will render to each one according to his works:

Romans 2:12-16
12 For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.
13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.
14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them
16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

Romans 6:11-14
11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.
13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness.
14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 8:4-7
4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.
6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.
7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot.

1 Corinthians 3:1-3
1 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ.
2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way?

2 Corinthians 13:5-6
5Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!
6 I hope you will find out that we have not failed the test.

Hebrews 10:26-31
26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.
28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.
29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him who said, "Vengeance is mine; I will repay." And again, "The Lord will judge his people." 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

James 1:21-25
21 Therefore put away all filthiness and rampant wickedness and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.
23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror.
24 For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like.
25 But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing.

James 2:17
17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

James 4:7-10
7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
8 Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
9 Be wretched and mourn and weep. Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom.
10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will exalt you.

1 Peter 2:11-12
11 Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul.
12 Keep your conduct among the Gentiles honorable, so that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day of visitation.

All referenced Scripture is from the ESV Bible

Don't have people ask Jesus into their heart

Jeff makes a excellent point in this video about asking Jesus in to your heart or praying a salvation prayer. Below I have attached and article from Todd Friel called "Ten Reasons To Not Ask Jesus Into Your Heart". Please take the time to read it, this is a very important issue



Ten Reasons To Not Ask Jesus Into Your Heart

The music weeps, the preacher pleads, "Give your heart to Jesus. You have a God shaped hole in your heart and only Jesus can fill it." Dozens, hundreds or thousands of people who want to get their spiritual life on track make their way to the altar. They ask Jesus into their heart.

Cut to three months later. Nobody has seen our new convert in church. The follow up committee calls him and encourages him to attend a Bible study, but to no avail. We label him a backslider and get ready for the next outreach event.

Our beloved child lies in her snugly warm bed and says, "Yes, Daddy. I want to ask Jesus into my heart." You lead her in "the prayer" and hope that it sticks. You spend the next ten years questioning if she really, really meant it. Puberty hits and the answer reveals itself. She backslides. We spend the next ten years praying that she will come to her senses.

Telling someone to ask Jesus into their hearts has a very typical result, backsliding. the Bible says that a person who is soundly saved puts his hand to the plow and does not look back because he is fit for service. In other words, a true convert cannot backslide. If a person backslides, he never slid forward in the first place. "If any man is in Christ, he is a new creation." (II Cor.5) No backsliding there.

Brace yourself for this one: with very few if any exceptions, anyone who asked Jesus into their hearts to be saved...is not. If you asked Jesus into your heart because you were told that is what you have to do to become a Christian, you were mis-informed.

If you have ever told someone to ask Jesus into their heart (like I have), you produced a false convert. Here is why.

1. It is not in the Bible. There is not a single verse that even hints we should say a prayer inviting Jesus into our hearts. Some use Rev. 3:20. To tell us that Jesus is standing at the door of our hearts begging to come in. "Behold, I stand at the door and knock." There are two reasons that interpretation is wrong.

The context tells us that the door Jesus is knocking on is the door of the church, not the human heart. Jesus is not knocking to enter someone's heart but to have fellowship with His church. Even if the context didn't tell us this, we would be forcing a meaning into the text (eisegesis). How do we know it is our heart he is knocking at? Why not our car door? How do we know he isn't knocking on our foot? To suggest that he is knocking on the door of our heart is superimposing a meaning on the text that simply does not exist.

The Bible does not instruct us to ask Jesus into our heart. This alone should resolve the issue, nevertheless, here are nine more reasons.

2. Asking Jesus into your heart is a saying that makes no sense. What does it mean to ask Jesus into your heart? If I say the right incantation will He somehow enter my heart? Is it literal? Does He reside in the upper or lower ventricle? Is this a metaphysical experience? Is it figurative? If it is, what exactly does it mean? While I am certain that most adults cannot articulate its meaning, I am certain that no child can explain it. Pastor Dennis Rokser reminds us that little children think literally and can easily be confused (or frightened) at the prospect of asking Jesus into their heart.

3. In order to be saved, a man must repent (Acts 2:38). Asking Jesus into your heart leaves out the requirement of repentance.

4. In order to be saved, a man must trust in Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31).
Asking Jesus into your heart leaves out the requirement of faith.

5. The person who wrongly believes they are saved will have a false sense of security. Millions of people who sincerely, but wrongly, asked Jesus into their hearts think they are saved but struggle to feel secure. They live in doubt and fear because they do not have the Holy Spirit giving them assurance of salvation.

6. The person who asks Jesus into his heart will likely end up inoculated, bitter and backslidden. Because he did not get saved by reciting a formulaic prayer, he will grow disillusioned with Jesus, the Bible, church and fellow believers. His latter end will be worse than the first.

7. It presents God as a beggar just hoping you will let Him into your busy life. This presentation of God robs Him of His sovereignty.

8. The cause of Christ is ridiculed. Visit an atheist web-site and read the pagans who scoff, "How dare those Christians tell us how to live when they get divorced more than we do? Who are they to say homosexuals shouldn't adopt kids when tens of thousands of orphans don't get adopted by Christians?" Born again believers adopt kids and don't get divorced. People who ask Jesus into their hearts do. Jesus gets mocked when false converts give Him a bad name.

9. The cause of evangelism is hindered. While it is certainly easier to get church members by telling them to ask Jesus into their hearts, try pleading with someone to make today the day of their salvation. Get ready for a painful response. "Why should I become a Christian when I have seen so called Christians act worse than a pagan?" People who ask Jesus into their hearts give pagans an excuse for not repenting.

10. Here is the scary one. People who ask Jesus into their hearts are not saved and they will perish on the Day of Judgment. How tragic that millions of people think they are right with God when they are not. How many people who will cry out, "Lord, Lord" on judgment day will be "Christians" who asked Jesus into their hearts? So, what must one do to be saved? Repent and trust. ( Heb.6:1) The Bible makes it clear that all men must repent and place their trust in Jesus Christ. Every man does have a "God shaped hole in their hearts," but that hole is not contentment, fulfillment and peace. Every man's heart problem is righteousness. Instead of preaching that Jesus fulfills, we must preach that God judges and Jesus satisfies God's judgment...if a man will repent and place his trust in Him.

If you are reading this and you asked Jesus into your heart, chances are good you had a spiritual buzz for a while, but now you struggle to read your Bible, tithe, attend church and pray. Perhaps you were told you would have contentment, purpose and a better life if you just ask Jesus into your heart. I am sorry, that was a lie.


If you have been preaching that people should ask Jesus into their hearts, I beg you to stop immediately. You will give an account for all the souls you have led astray. ***

Learn how to share the gospel simply, effectively, biblically, the way Jesus did.
Check out:
Hell's Best Kept Secret

Jacked Up!

The title says it all. You can listen to these people for hours and never hear a bible versus. There is a reason for that.... because most of it is un-biblical.

Watch in disbelief!

Patricia King "Excellent" Not , but truly "Bogus"

If anyone has studied the word of faith movement undoubtedly they have see Patrica King. I was crying inside because this video is so funny. These people are way out their but that doesn't mean we shouldn't pray for their salvation. I hope God speaks the true gospel in to her life and the people that watch her show.

If your my age, and remember Bill and Ted's excellent adventure you will like this clip.

Preach God's Word, Boldly, and nothing else!

something that has bothered me a lot over the last couple years in a lot of different churches. Is this toning down, dumbing down, simplifying of the Gospel. too many pastors now a days are worried about growing their church telling funny jokes making people laugh. When they should be worried about convicting God's people of their sin, preaching the Word faithfully, boldly without hesitation and equip God's people to go out and share their faith. Some people call this trend "seeker sensitive" or "church growth". This has always been something that's bothered me, but I really haven't noticed how un-Biblical it is until I watched a couple of the following clips. When I was attending together for the Gospel Mark never did a lesson on the centrality of the Gospel. Matter of fact, the title of his lesson was "improving the Gospel; exercises in un-biblical theology". prior to this together for the Gospel event, I always felt that pastors were more worried about pleasing the people then they were honoring and glorifying God in their preaching. Now I know, a lot of pastors don't wake up on Sunday morning and say, how can I please people. I think many of them have motives that are good (as much as our motives can be good with out following God's plan), but is that biblical? so watch the next couple clips. The first one is by Jim McCarty about seeker sensitive churches, the second clip is of RC Sproul and the third clip is of Alistair Begg. I have also added a link to Mark Dever's, hour-long presentation from together for the gospel.

I hope that God uses this post to speak into some hearts on what the purpose of preaching and the church is. I think Paul in 2 Timothy 15 could of benefited from the seeker sensitive model of building a church. Everybody in Asia was turning their backs on him because he would boldly, unequivocally, without hesitation, without taking the offense out, He preached the Gospel and he preach it hard!







"Improving the Gospel; exercises in un-biblical theology" by Mark Dever

Sharing Your Faith - The Law

This is going to be the first in a series of posts that I'm going to put on on my blog that have to do with sharing your faith. The way I share my faith is based off of the way of the master teaching Ray Comfort started. The teaching is called Hell's best-kept secret, and it goes through why the law should be used to pierce the heart of the sinner to go past the logic and go straight to the conscience. A lot of Christians get freaked out with sharing their faith, and there's really no reason to. Mark Cahill says it's a win-win situation. If they reject you, they are not rejecting you they are rejecting God. You may also think you failed but you planted a seed.

This video is of a witness encounter were Steve Sanchez is using the law to witness to a young lady who "is a christian". He walks her through the law to show her how sinful she is in God's eye. He pulls away the self righteous idea that she is a good person.



Did I forget to mention the women is a Lesbian? Get what.... it doesn't matter. The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul Psalm 19:7

Here is a link to the HBKS teaching by Ray Comfort
http://www.livingwaters.com/listenwatch.shtml

Church Reform When You're Not the Pastor (Part 2)

I originally posted 5 articles from over at 9 Marks ministries blog titled "Church Reform When You're Not the Pastor". Well the boys over at 9 Marks have post more articles to the series so instead of updating the old post I created a new "part 2" so everyone would see it. These articles have been very helpful for myself. Hopefully they can speak to you and your situation at your church http://blog.9marks.org/

by Greg Gilbert

6. Train other leaders. Aim for majorities.

One of the things I've learned in my few years working on reforming a church is that congregation-wide agreement does not fall out of the sky on a silver platter. Reforming a church is a long process that requires a whole lot of conversations, a whole lot of persuasion---and a whole lot of votes. And at the end of the day, if you're going to facilitate reform, you need majorities that will vote for it.

Once you've been recognized as a leader in your church, the next step is to work on discipling other men who could also be recognized as leaders, and who, eventually, could join you in forming a majority of the leadership that wants to press for reform. As in so much of the Christian life, that's a long process of identifying men whom God has gifted for leadership, spending time with them, teaching them, and preparing them spiritually and otherwise for leadership.

When I came to Third Avenue, there were three men (including Aaron Menikoff who blogs here occasionally) on the board of deacons who were in favor of change. But there were three other men on the board who were not. When I was elected as a deacon, after several months of serving as a member in the church, all of us knew that my becoming a deacon made it 4-3 in favor of reform. And so we started reforming the church on a series of 4-3 votes.

Now one can argue that this was somehow unethical, and that it would have been better to try to persuade one (or even all three) of the other men to agree with the idea of reform.........

Click below to finish reading the articles
Article 5
Article 6
Article 7
Article 8

Do you love hymns!

today in church I was standing at the back of the sanctuary, and during worship I was thinking about how much I miss hymns. To be completely honest I never really remember singing hymns in church. We have always sung contemporary music for the most part since I've been a believer. But that all changed for me while I was down at the together for the gospel conference in Kentucky. We Sung hymns before every speaker would get up and after every speaker was done. It could've been the fact that over 5000 men were singing hymns with me. But there was something about worshiping to those hymns. It just felt more majestic more glorious and more honoring to God . The lyrics in the song just seemed to focus me directly upon God and upon Christ and the work he did on the cross. They were so deep in theology I felt convicted just singing the songs.

The title to the first video I have attached to this article is “do you hate old hands because you're unregenerate”. Right off the bat people will jump to battle stations and say that's ridiculous, contemporary music is just fine for Christians to worship to. In the general context of the argument I don't have an issue with contemporary christian music. But I also agree with the point that they make on this clip when they say, “is it possible that you do not like hymns because you are unregenerate (not saved)”? I believe that I was that guy, I couldn't stand to listen to hymns. hymns were just boring and dry and long and drawn out. But at the time I thought that way about hymns I obviously was unregenerate when I look back. Of course, I prayed the prayer , you know accept Jesus into my heart. The more I studied God's word the more I realized that those are all just outward signs. Inwardly I wasn't bored again.



So not to leave you hanging the second clip that I have in this post is really awesome. It is a clip of Wintley Phipps talking about the slave scale on the piano, and how almost all the Negro spiritual songs come from the slave scale or the Black Keys. And it's just a cool little clip where he explains how the melody for Amazing Grace possibly could've came about.

Vacation Bible School...Rededicating Your Life...Ask Jesus Into Your Heart?

Stuff = Not born again ?

If your first reaction was "no" to the title maybe you have too much stuff!

Sometimes I think to myself "it is so hard to be a Christian in this country, because we have so much stuff" we have stuff everywhere, our goal in America is getting more stuff, being more secure in our stuff , trying to get other peoples stuff, and all that stuff gets in the way of God and of Christ. Do you ever stop to think of all the things you would put before reading your Bible. We think of our Bible as a Book. How often do we put things in front of simply reading our Bible? oh I have to get ready to go to work, I want to watch TV, let's go out to eat, I'm going to bed early, let's go on a bike ride, or a walk. How often do we put things before reading God's Word to us!

Think of how many things you have in your house in your life that mean nothing on the day of judgment. When Christ comes back the things that mean absolutely nothing! I can go down the list, just as easily as anybody else. As Christians we should have nothing we place before Christ and all things that compete with Christ in our lives should be pushed away!

Church Reform When You're Not the Pastor

I saw these articles over at 9 Marks ministries blog. They have been very helpful for situations that I find myself in. Hopefully they can speak to you and your situation at your church
http://blog.9marks.org/

by Greg Gilbert

There's been some talk here lately, in the comments sections, about how on earth one can go about reforming a church---or even moving it in a good direction---when you're not the pastor. For the next few weeks, I want to post a series of little nuggets of what I hope will be help to people in that kind of situation. All these come from my own experience as one of several men who have worked to reform Third Avenue Baptist Church in Louisville. I don't claim universality for any of these; some of them might be helpful to you in your situation; others might be positively unhelpful. You'll have to use your own wisdom as you think through them. But I hope that the lot of them will provide some helpful perspective as you try to navigate the admittedly tough job of trying to steer a church into a more healthy direction.

Let me know what you think of these. Add others if you want, especially you other 9M bloggers who have more experience in this area than I do. I have thirteen points in mind right now. That may get longer or shorter as we go. But here we go.......

Here are the links to part 1, 2, 3, and 4 of this article
article 1
article 2
article 3
article 4
article 5

The Emerging Church (the ultimate post)

Below I've posted a couple clips of Mark Driscoll explaining the different emerging lanes. These are the different as he calls them the lanes or highways in the emergent church. He was originally associated with the fourth stream that he talks about with Rob Bell and Brian McLaren. His envolment started before the Terra nova project. I also saw a presentation by Jason Carlson. If I remember correctly, Jason Carlson was actually a student of Doug Pagitt. Doug Pagitt was basically his youth pastor I believe and Doug Pagitt decided to start Solomon's porch and Jason Carlson tells a similar story to Mark Driscoll, where they started realize some of the underpinnings of this movement that this fourth emergent lane where people were questioning, certain Biblical doctrines we would normally consider absolutes in Christendom. Mark Driscoll goes on to explain this in these video clips. I would like to find some of the videos from Jason, I actually have a presentation on DVD from a worldview weekend conferences. But I'm pretty sure that will violate some type of copyright infringement.







just to give you a little insight into some of the people in the emergent church here is an interview that Todd Friel of Way of the Master radio did with the Doug Pagitt.

How to Refute a Straw Man